Friday, October 5, 2012

Daily Discussion Question: Should Pachall Be Allowed to Suit Up?




Guess we haven't seen the last of this after all.

This came to my attention after the preview was up, but I think it's worthy of its own post.  Under the excuse that he's, "not going to let him hide from this," Gary Patterson has made the QUESTIONABLE decision to allow CP to suit up and stand on the sidelines with TCU tomorrow and then decide what to do with him going forward on Sunday.  This comes on the heels of a few choice quotes from GMFP along the lines of him not being sure exactly how long the suspension will be, and that it could just be this weekend.

Personally, I do not like the move and was at least semi-stunned that CP wasn't kicked off the team altogether.  I'm not sure that would've been the right move, but I kind of assumed at least a suspension for the rest of the season would occur so that he could get his life back in order.  I understand the flip side of the coin, that GP believes if he keeps Casey in the fold he can show him how much the team cares for him and needs him and inspire him that way, but if GP lets him come back and play this season without getting his head straight, what was it all for?  Patterson clearly couldn't care less what the Mac Engel's and Randy Galloway's think about it, but they have a point that this raises some credibility issues about star-player treatment.  Maybe his genius extends to the realm of substance abuse counciling, but I'm in the camp that believe Pachall should distance himself from the program for a while for his own good.  I've rarely doubted one of GP's decisions, but in this case I think the correct move doesn't involve CP being at Amon G on Saturday.

What does everyone else think?  Am I being a curmudgeon?

52 comments:

darnoldy said...

What's the over/under on how many times they'll show the close up shot of Pachall on the sidelines during the broadcast?

JHale said...

I really do think it will provide more humility and show him what he has lost by making the decision he made. The kid needs to seek some type of counseling to help him come around to a self realization because that is the only way he will finally understand what he has and what he can lose with his self destructive behavior.

I don't think there is a simple way of handling this but your team is your family... you wouldn't give up on a brother/sister just like GP isn't willing to kick this kid to the curb.

Kid has totally lost his way... hope this is the slap in the face he needed to get his life back on track (whether it be in football or just in general)

Middle Man said...

I think its great that they are keeping him. If they get hammered, everyone will put the blame on him, if they win, it will be despite him. Casey needs to take responsibility for his actions and this might finally be the thing to help him do it.

Patterson and the rest of the coaches invest a ton of time into the players, I am sure they are crushed that Casey continues to go down this path but I think it shows class that they arent just kicking him to the curb.

Also, let him ride the bench all season long, dont let him play but let him watch what he is missing.

two-tons said...

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/20/fanhouse-report-bcs-football-program-drug-policies-revealed/

If the Univeristy follows their own rules as published in the link above, CP will be suspended for three games.

My opinion is to allow Boykin to be starting quarterback and dismiss Pachall from the team.

Snowfrog said...

NO!!!

Tanner said...

Putting him on clip board/headset/no huddle signals duty for three games should give GP and the coaches a lot of material. Think about how that dude will react to being taken off his mantle, and if he doesn't show some emotional investment in the team, and some positive reinforcement if they lose, they'll know for sure that he truthfully is not worth wasteing time and resources on.

SuperSweet HornedFrog said...

I think everybody needs to chill out. Lets get real, I like Boykin and should be fun to watch play, but we have no shot in hell in winning the Big 12 without Pachall and Patterson knows it....Kids do drugs and drink in college so get over it

general125 said...

The knee-jerk sports-talk reaction is to kick him off the team. If Patterson wants to be creative with his corrective action, I'm all for it.

On the is this a big deal, lack of institutional control scale of 0 being converting to division III "love of the game" and 10 being Oklahoma in 1989, this is a 3. I'm going to reserve my outrage for something of substance.

Reed said...

What if boykin plays well and we win the next three games?

Tanner said...

If boykin plays well for the next three games and CP is only suspended for three games then...........

fart.

that is all.

My take is this happened on a Wednesday and we have a game on Saturday and GMFP has !@#$ to do in the mean time. CP is not playing, get Boykin up to speed, play the game, and then he has a couple of days to think it through.

On his weekly SiriusXM radio call in, GMFP stated that he is indefinitely suspended from COMPETITION, but obv he is suiting up for this game because he didn't was CP to "hide from [it.]" He went on to say (rough quote) whether that is one game or the whole season, that hasn't been decided.

He shouldn't have been drinking obv. Does it happen? Yes. Does he have a substance problem? How the hell do any of you know? Because I don't and I read everything there is.

Travis said...

Until SuperSweet's comments, I was in complete agreement with many of your excellent points. If that link to the 3 game suspension is accurate, then that is at least what should occur. I was thinking 4 games up to the remainder of the season.
Tanner, I like the idea of making sure he is emotionally invested in the team by holding a clipboard. I also like the fact that he will be on the sideline, don't like the suiting up part, and facing his teammates and the public. Please, not that I think our fanbase would, don't taunt the guy this Sautrday, he's still just a 21 year old college kid that has made supid, poor choices. Even if never plays another down as a Frog, I want him to get things heading in the right direction.

SuperSweet HornedFrog said...

Travis you are right....CP is awful, not worth saving, burn him at the stake, hes the anti christ

johnjesse2122 said...

He needs to be suspended for the rest of the season. They can't kick you out of school for getting a dwi so why would they bail on him and kick him off the team? He needs to go to some AA meetings, maybe some outpatient substance abuse program like the one they have at Baylor hospital and give him a chance to turn it around before spring practice. Even if he doesn't have an alcohol problem, he needs to say that he does and fake it till he makes it. That'll get him some sympathy from both the law enforcement side and the school administration side. Dude deserves another chance. Those of you who didn't like to do drugs and get wasted I guess wouldn't understand.

JHale said...
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JHale said...

Agreed johnjesse... Kid has some issues he needs to iron out. Society is so quick to give up on kids... guess that's what happens when society "has" to have instant gratification. Nobody thinks anymore

VikingFrog said...

I don't think he should be kicked off the team. I don't think he should dress for the game either. Why suit up if there is no chance in hell he plays? Why not just put him in a jersey and shorts. There is no reason for him to suit up. None at all. Put him on the sidelines.. sure.

spoiledguineafrog said...

Maybe GMFP's going for the "It's a Wonderful Life" effect. If that's the case, I might be more inclined to welcome back the prodigal son.

Chet Steadman said...

We don't know if he has a serious substance abuse problem or not. If he does, someone close to him should say something and do something about it. Since no one has ever come forward and said something about it, its safe to assume that hes just being a college kid. Yes, he has more of a responsibility than most other college kids who make terrible decisions, but it is not GP's job to spank his ass and punish him like his father would if he were a little boy. Casey will serve the minimum suspension required by team policy and he will start as soon as it is up. I guarantee you GMFP does not give two shits about what Lord of Douchebags Mac Engel or any other self righteous media member will say when he announces this. He will not sacrifice a win for every other player on his team just to teach Casey a lesson. Casey's punishment will come when his time at TCU is over and GP knows this. There aren't many NFL teams (besides ones where the owner is actually the GM, head of marketing, and face of the franchise plastered on a 60 yard long HD TV at all times) that would risk drafting a player with so many character flaws to lead their football team. No additional punishment should be put on Casey. He screwed up his future in a bad way and his punishment will come. Theres no need to punish everyone else on the team for his actions.
Hopefully I'm wrong though. I'd love for Boykin to come out and have a huge game so we can make Paschall think about it a little longer, but its wishful thinking. Casey gives us the best chance to win, and don't try to take a win away from GMFP.

Travis Maloney said...

I'd make a joke about how SMU's QB has an addiction problem too(interceptions) but I wouldn't want to stir anything up.

SnK said...

I've had about enough. Let's move on and usher in a new era. There will be growing pains, but he's had plenty of chances.

FrogHorn07 said...

+1

Skeptical Frog said...

All I'm gonna say is that I find it interesting that 4 guys (3 of whom weren't exactly "superstars") were expelled almost immediately when they get busted selling drugs and CP is going to maybe a few games for driving in such a way he could do some real damage.
As far as I know, the 4 didn't have any other particularly public disciplinary problems while CP... well... he's still got stink from the incident that got the 4 expelled.
If he's got a problem (maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, I don't know), then I'd say declare him medically unable to play for the rest of the season and make him go to rehab. If he doesn't have a "real problem", then he's a time bomb and doesn't need to be around influencing anybody.
Either way, I don't think he should be in a uniform the rest of the season.

Travis said...

No SuperSweet, I said you were the anti-christ and should be burned at the stake. Also, I gonna eat your children! How did you get that from my statement? Do yourself a favor and reread it please.

Mason said...
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Mason said...

To SuperSweet HornedFrog:
There are bigger things out there than winning the Big 12 in one season. Like how everyone (including ourselves) perceives us. Or the longterm future of the program (ie future Big 12 Champsionsships). Or Casey's personal well being.

My main problem with your comments are that you said "Kids do drugs and drink in college so get over it". That should not be the attitude of any Horned Frog. The vast majority of TCU students do not do drugs, and the vast majority don't Drink and Drive. If you think that they do, perhaps you have been hanging out with the wrong crowd. I'm not trying to make a comment on the morality of doing drugs-that's irrelevant here. The point is that Casey did something that had a good chance of killing somebody. We should not tolerate that.

Your comments that imply Travis thinks Casey is the antichrist (I realize your hyperbole) are pretty far off the mark. If you think a 4 game to full-season suspension is outrageous, you need to realize that might just be the best thing for Casey right now.

To Tanner and Chet:
Even before Wednesday, I had heard rumors about Casey doing some pretty wild things. Things like going to bars and pretending the owner had told him he could have free drinks so he didn't have to pay. Passing out in the alley next to Old Rips. We know he did marijuana and possibly other drugs. Again, not commenting on the morality of the drugs, just the fact that he KNEW doing drugs could jeapordize the football team.

To Skeptical Frog:
I think you're right on. I personally knew Devin Johnson. He was friends with some of my roommates, and I helped him out with some of his class assignments. He was in a difficult major (Computer Information Technology) but he didn't want to cheat off me (not that I'd let him). Instead, he wanted me to show him how to do things so that he could learn enough to get started and then he'd follow up and ask me more questions when he got stuck. In our class together, he was pretty sharp and he always asked intelligent questions to the profesor. I can't speak for the other 3 guys that were dismissed from the team, but Devin definitely deserved a second chance.

On the other hand, Casey was very nearly caught up himself in the drug scandal. I'm too lazy to find the article, but I believe he said stuff along the lines of "we need to represent ourselves better than that" etc. Yet he continued to put himself at risk. He had his second chance. In my opinion, suspension for the rest of the year is appropriate punishment and will give him some time to figure out what he needs to be doing with his life.

SnK said...

There's nothing wrong with trying to score some free drinks...

Mason said...

Nothing wrong with trying to score some free drinks-hey everybody loves free! There is something wrong with lying about it. And from the rumors I heard, he would do this at multiple bars and it wasn't just a joke. It shows a bit of a character flaw, constantly taking advantage of your position like that. Let me be clear: free beer=Good, lying=bad, passing out drunk in alley=bad.

I just went and Read SWW's previous of tomorrow. In addition to the possibility of "The Ewing Theory" we should also take into account the affect this will have on leadership. I'll bet that a lot of the players knew what was going on with Case and it disappointed them because they knew he was jeopardizing their team's chances. It could possibly explain why he seemed to have a bit of a problem connecting with Skye Dawson and Josh Boyce. Perhaps with Boykin being thrust into a position where he must step up, the guys will develop a better chemistry with him.

Mason said...

I can't help but be disappointed in how poorly Case measured up to Andy Dalton off the field wise.

Granted, that's a huge expectation to live up to. Andy was a constant positive presence on campus and that article in the paper about how he saved that lady's dog from death by dehydration stuck with him.

Sure, it's unrealistic to expect Casey to live up to that. But even if he can't, he could at least do enough to, you know, not embarrass himself, the team, the school, and the entire town. He probably has some alcohol dependency problems he needs to work on, but there's things you can do to work through that. Appears he didn't and now he's put his entire bright future at risk.

johnjesse2122 said...

Those of you who never got drunk and drove should cast the first stones. Otherwise, i say we quit putting Casey on blast.

SnK said...

Nobody putting him on blast. I'd just be okay with him not being our QB anymore. He's had plenty of chances. He's not suiting out tomorrow anymore either.

Travis said...
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Travis said...

Mason, very well stated sir! You're a good egg.

Frogger98 said...

This whole thing is embarassing. TCU has had down years before, I just hope the new guy from Kansas is not like Casey. Casey has had a lot of chances, and it it s time for him to get his head on striaght. Does it really matter if we lose a few games? I would rather do that than be like UT. Punish Casey according to the rules and let TCU keep its integrity.

Amanda said...

I think Casey should have to be present at the game on Saturday and face his fans, teammates, and people in the community that care about him. I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished, but kicking him off the team indefinitely does not help anyone. For all we know being part of the football program is the only reason he's attending college and that his life hasn't gotten any crazier than it already is.

For those of you mentioning the other players who were expelled for selling drugs, those were felony charges and TCU has a policy involving that level of crime. Since Casey has only been caught using drugs, not selling, it's not reasonable to expect him to be expelled like the other players.

I don't think Casey is a bad kid. That's what young adults do, we feel like we're on top of the world and that nothing bad will ever happen to us. Everyone is entitled to make mistakes, we don't have to exile him just to make a statement.

DiploMatt said...

What about the appearance to the rest of the team?

I played college football and I certainly never went drinking during football season. I can't say that was true of all my teammates all of the time, but it was true of most of them (anyone worth their salt) most of the time, and absolutely true of our QB (I have no doubt about that).

If you're the QB, you are the ultimate leader of the football team and if you don't have the dedication to stay out of the bars, I don't want you as my leader, I don't care how good you are.

How would you guys feel if you found out the President of the United States was sniffing lines of coke and parting with hookers? You wouldn't want hims as your President very long would ya?

You have to be more dedicated than anyone else and if you're not willing to take that responsibility, move over, because there is someone else that is.

I feel for the guy, he needs help, but the reality is he needs to have a serious "come to Jesus" moment in his life, and there is no way that truly happens in a couple weeks time.

No way he plays the rest of the year, and if he doesn't play the rest of the year he will likely go to the NFL and try his luck there.

Even if he doesn't go to the NFL, are you seriously going to put 8 games into TB and then switch back to CP next year, no way, he's done.

Move On People

zues said...

Gary Pinkel – Mizzou Head Coach – DUI last Nov – Suspended one game
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/tiger-tracker/mizzou-suspends-football-coach-gary-pinkel-after-dwi-arrest/article_41697030-112f-11e1-827c-0019bb30f31a.html

Wednesday Nov 16 2011 Mizzou football coach Gary Pinkel was suspended one week without pay missed a Saturday's game against Texas Tech after he was was arrested Wednesday night in Columbia, Mo., on suspicion of driving while intoxicated.... he got a DUI, missed one week and was the HEAD COACH. should a player be held to a higher standard and punished more severely than a head coach???


Pachall caliber Players:

Michael Floyd – Notre Dame WR – DUI in March – No suspension in games
http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncf/story/_/id/6829875/notre-dame-fighting-irish-reinstate-michael-floyd-dui-suspension

Fitgerald Toussaint – Michagan RB – DUI in July – Suspended vs. Michigan
http://www.sbnation.com/2012/8/27/3271827/fitzgerald-toussaint-playing-starting-michigan-alabama-game

zues said...

Y'all gotta chill out on the pachall blood lust damn... Shit happens even to frogs

Mason said...

Its not bloodlust. He screwed up. He needs punishment, time to get his life back on track, and to not be in a position to embarass everyone. As for comparing to other schools- shouldnt we hold ourselves to higher standards?

Mason said...

Oh, and as for shit happening to CP...he did this to himself. No one forced him to drink and get behind the wheel. Therefore he should be held responsible for his actions. This should be clear to all fans.

zues said...

Come on dude get over yourself support your fellow humans and your fellow frog.. He does it again its one thing but its his first criminal offense regardless of the sideshow that was last February.

Hot 'n Spicy HornedFrog said...

The lone highlight from that game is Laura McKeeman.

Mason said...

Zues, I'm not sure what you want me to get over myself about.

Legally, this is his first offense yes. But it's about more than the legality of it. He knew he shouldn't do that for a number of reasons I already mentioned above. So he had his second chance. The only sympathy he deserves is for a poor young man that probably has an alcohol dependency that got in the way of a bright future.

The attitude of "if he does it again then we should be mad" should not cut it for a TCU fan.

zues said...

He might be a head case but besides that its something the frogs will pull through and I hope they're better in the end. Pachall needs to clean his act up and needed to before this but the boy needs to be on the football field also. He should be fine and he shouldn't be suspended for the season or kicked off the team. And it's inappropriate for you to say he has a problem, needs help or anything else. Tcu football and pachall need each other. Your reasoning and randy Galloway is not reasonable. in fact its a serious let down to hear. And please don't tell me what cuts it and what doesn't as a fan. As a person you and many should think this shit through more before you speak. I hope pachall gets it together and wins the hiesman next year. ohhh yeah i love the frogs and the players

Mason said...

Oh boy Zues.

Pachall earlier admitted to smoking marijuana. Last time I checked- that's illegal, whether you like it or not. He barely escaped legal trouble and promised to clean up his act.

Fast forward to this week. DUI. Not only is drinking and driving illegal, but it's dangerous. He could have killed himself or someone else.

Now I'm not a shrink or anything, but when you do things that put yourself, innocent people, and people depending on you at risk, you probably have some sort of problem.

He definitely needs help, that's pretty obvious. He needs time off to figure out what's important, he needs punishment to reinforce that what he did was wrong, and he quite possibly might need professional help if he has an alcohol dependency. He may not have one, but how many starting quarterbacks are going out and getting drunk on a Wednesday night?

I wish CP the best in the future, but I do not want him representing this team anymore. I'll take a loss right now if it means we'll come out stronger in the end.

THEFINCH said...

You misspelled Zeus, idiot

Dave said...

shit on a stick.

Dave said...

it happens.

Ed said...

Smoking Marijuana isn't "illegal." Neither is failing a drug test.

Mason said...

Ed-In Texas, it is. At least possession is, which I assume you would need possession of it in order to smoke it.

Easy to understand-http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/HS/htm/HS.481.htm

Actual Law-http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/HS/htm/HS.481.htm

The fact still stands, by doing the things Pachall was doing he was putting himself and his team at risk. That's unacceptable.

Ed said...

Like I said, smoking marijuana isn't "illegal." You are correct, possession is. So his admission to using drugs in the past is even farther from "illegal" than smoking weed is.

What I am getting at is Gary Patterson, Boschini, Del Conte are wise in their careful approach to this situation. Alleged use of drugs in the past and a school issued failed drug test are FAR different from being caught selling drugs in the act. Most of the national commentary seems to miss that.

Mason said...

Even if smoking isn't, possession is. There's no need to split hairs.

Drinking and driving is illegal.

Pachall knew that doing both of those things could put everyone at risk, yet he did it anyway.

zues said...

All emotions aside, if I had anything to say about it, and in reality I don't, my input would be "no special rule for Pachall".

That means no favors AND it means no unusually harsh treatment because he is a high-profile student.

Follow University policy if there is one for a situation as unique as this seems to be. If it's so unique that there is no written, uniform policy, which i would be shocked to hear is the case, then the administration should be involved at the very top. That's the Chancellor and that seems to be taking place. They just shouldnt deviate from any policy that exists, for any reason.